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Neocron Wiki talk:Article Policy

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Article Policy updates

Ok, the Epic guides and Jones guides are looking real nice. Thanks for everyone who worked on them, espically Logan who work hard on the Jones guides and set the standard for everyone to match. I've asked Dragonette to contribute since she did a lot of work on some of the epics as well.

However on the Epicguides there is a bit of inconsistancy with layout. Thats not to say any of them is right or wrong, so I would like to throw in a few proposals that will make all the missions have a consistant layout, as in future more missions will get put up on the wiki.

What gets agreed here will be added form part of the article policy guide.

General layout

The current layout I think is good and simple to follow. Carry out these steps in this order, and you get this at the end. Usually most missions are talk to this NPC, then to the next one, then back to the first NPC.

In Logan's versions he has a thumbnail of the NPC in the guide, where as mine I have links to the NPC pages, which use the NPCbox template. See the Twilight Guardian Epic for the way I done it, and the Tangent Epic for how Logan has uses NPC thumbnails. (Ignore the HTML formating issue thats squashing the pages)

Some Q's.

  1. Do we combine both formats, or stick with one or the other?
  2. Could we use NPC's in a better way?
  3. Is it possible to Transclude just the NPCbox from a NPC page?


Comment

The layout came about due to a couple of main reasons,
1 - Having used guides for several years i simply wrote it how i would like to see it. i.e. all the information on one page. I used to alt-tab to check things and didn't want to be navigating a browser to find further info.
2 - I was unsure if wiki needed to be bombarded with a separate page for every NPC considering how little would be wrote about them, they would almost be a stub.
If it is acceptable to have a page for each NPC then i feel there is merit in creating NPC boxes for them and maybe linking there location picture to the missions, like Figaro for example. How you would do this though i don't know! as with a mission you really only want to know where he is.

This would offer two audiences different aspects. firstly doing a mission , where the hell is this guy i am meant to meet! or secondly general curiosity of what's this NPC for that you bump into on your travels, Look him up and it tells you he's for an epic quest etc. Admin-avatar.png Logan Ford  (t)  (c)14:25, 6 May 2008 (BST)

  • Having looked at both and reading Logan's comments, I must remind people of one thing. People are fickle!
  • For presentation, Logan's is excellent and the point of adding a box of picture of npc and exact location is brilliant. However, whilst doing things for presentation, there is also people who just want to know where it is quickly and effectivily and are not intrested in all the other "crap", for lack of a better word.
  • Personally, I like logans layout more, since it holds more information, show's locations of npc's. One thing I would like to see added though is the All-in-One map, to each guide, simply because it's very good at connecting the zones, especially Outzone for those new to the epic's quests. -- Dragonette 22:17, 6 May 2008 (BST)

Additional edit - After looking at Tangent again, we may need to work on picture format of 3 in one line. The fourth picture, throws the whole screen, so is there a way to break it down, 2 per line sort of thing, 3 max per line then spilt? -- Dragonette 22:59, 6 May 2008 (BST)

Tipline and Tipbox

Which one should be used in guides, or does either template need tweaking? Some examples.

Tipline

  • Talk to Figaro and buy some Whiteflash off him for 500nc.
  • Return to Constantine and talk to her twice.


TipCol

  • Talk to Figaro and buy some Whiteflash off him for 500nc.
  • Return to Constantine and talk to her twice.

TB_col

  • Talk to Figaro and buy some Whiteflash off him for 500nc.
  • Return to Constantine and talk to her twice.

Comment

I prefer the Tipline as i find it less obtrusive whilst reading the main guide. After all it is a tip! Admin-avatar.png Logan Ford  (t)  (c)14:25, 6 May 2008 (BST)

  • Have to disagree this time with Logan, I prefer the tipbox for 2 reasons. 1 - It stands out better. It makes people read it because it's jumps out at you. 2 - tipline, is/makes the screen blurry, in a sense. The whole tip is lost within the page making it seem cramped, confusing to read, conjested and irritating for people who just want to read and go. Maybe we need a popup box like the database pictures etc, for those that want a tip. Hide them till they are needed by those that want it? -- Dragonette 22:25, 6 May 2008 (BST)
  • Ok so I have had a look at making a collapsable tipline - I personally like the way the tipline colors compliment the rest of the site, however feedback and opinions are always welcome. By using the new template called {{TipCol}} (Which stands for Tip Collapse) I have been able to redo part of the Fallen Angels epic mission in a new style to incorporate the tips and images in a better way. Have a look here and see what you think. Also I think I would be able to make the mission style into a template, however this means a little bit more coding for everyone when you write an epic (but does mean the style of them all can be updated as one, and they all follow the same pattern! (You might notice the HTML tables in the source code :) )δρDelphi (t)(c) 23:44, 6 May 2008 (BST)
  • Ok again so I have been thinking about how best it is to do this - what I have done is a mockup here which shows the {{mission}} template and the {{TB_col}} template, the mission template will allow site wide conforming for the style of the missions, and allows the proper use of the {{TB_col}} template without needing to resort to adding HTML code to the site. The {{TB_col}} template allows the placement of a tipbox (Changed style however) next to the information, there are two arguments for the TB_col, the first is extra, which allows information to be placed before the "Tip:" - defaults to General, and Content allows the content of the tipbox to be in the hidden away section. As always feedback is appreciated! δρDelphi (t)(c) 00:42, 7 May 2008 (BST)

Infoline

Infolines are at the top of each part of the epic - see JonesGuide:Soldier for an example of it in use. This is given out at the start of each mission, and can be cut and pasted from the chatlog file. Here is an example.


Go to the PLAZA SEC-2 and get Gilbert McQueen to tell you who the contact person is


Some Questions.

  1. Should the Infoline have links to articles or or not?
  2. Should PLAZA SEC-2 be changed to match what has been decided in the Location naming discussion?
  3. Or should it be left totally untouched?

Comment

I copied directly, no changes as this is what you will see in your chat screen. Admin-avatar.png Logan Ford  (t)  (c)14:25, 6 May 2008 (BST)

  • Six of one, half of other. It really depends if you want to storyline the steps or just use the info. Personally, I would probebly ignore that line by instinct looking directly to the main part for the next steps, needed to complete irritating quests. Looks nice, but would it really be worth adding? -- Dragonette 22:30, 6 May 2008 (BST)

Links

One problem I've notice with the FA epic, is the linking. I think it looks a bit too much to see something like.

Ok you can clear the red links quite quickly, but is the above a bit overkill or acceptable?

Comment

Personally i think you only need link an NPC once so the repetition is removed. so it would become:-

  • Talk to Grimm and give her A
  • Talk to Constantine and give her B
  • Talk to Grimm and give her C
  • Talk to Constantine and give her D
  • Talk to Grimm and give her E
  • Talk to Constantine and give her F

Admin-avatar.png Logan Ford  (t)  (c)14:25, 6 May 2008 (BST)

I spotted that in the article policy, afterwards which says " Only the first instance of a word should appear as an Interlink." but I think for missions only it would be wise to adopt what you sugguested but allow the link to be added for the next part, like as follows.

Part 1

  • Talk to Grimm and give her A
  • Talk to Constantine and give her B
  • Talk to Grimm and give her C
  • ...etc

Part 1

  • Talk to Grimm and give her A
  • Talk to Constantine and give her B
  • Talk to Grimm and give her C
  • ...etc

The reason, Players may be on Part 2 and so comes into the article, clicks on Part 2 in the TOC. Then he'forgotten where Grim is, so he can click on the link, rather than having to scroll up to the 1st part to click on the link.

--Brammers 16:15, 6 May 2008 (BST)


  • Once per page is all that is needed. Anymore, just wasted. -- Dragonette 22:33, 6 May 2008 (BST)

Tempoary mission items

Some quests give out items to take to an NPC, like a Package. Should these be added to the Item DB, and then added to the guides?

Comment

There is a whole host of these, i see no benefit in adding them to the item DB, unless for completeness but i am sure there are more worthwhile things that could be achieved with your time :) Admin-avatar.png Logan Ford  (t)  (c)14:25, 6 May 2008 (BST)

Agree with Logan, a small note in the epic is all that's needed, so people know to check they have it... maybe. -- Dragonette 22:35, 6 May 2008 (BST)

NPC's

Search for Mark Cole. If you hit the go button, he comes up as a page. How does the layout look, and does it need expanding?

Also it would it be good to see what pages link to this NPC page? In the case of Mark Cole, there are 3 epics that link to him (CS,FA and TS), but right now you have to click on the "What links here" link. Is there a way to transclude that information into the NPC page?

Comment

Good idea Admin-avatar.png Logan Ford  (t)  (c)14:25, 6 May 2008 (BST)

  • Prefer the idea of a popup box with picture and location info, like small one. This would not take people away from the guide, but actually stay on the guide whilst adding additional infomation. Would also suggest photo's are taken with a lot more brightness, for area shots if they are needed. -- Dragonette 22:38, 6 May 2008 (BST)

Location naming

How should locations be named and listed in the wiki pages?

Comment

I would suggest as i have earlier that Plaza as a district be used and the various Sections be separated on the main plaza article. i.e. Plaza Sec-1 or even Plaza 1
This makes naming very easy as you only have to link the district, not each section which would create the above issue of Plaza SEC-1, Plaza 1 , Plaza sector 1 or even P1 !
you can also make any amendments to the Plaza Page without having to edit all over WIKI, as for the wastelands they will all endup as redirects :) just need to decide which you want i have no preference.Admin-avatar.png Logan Ford  (t)  (c)14:25, 6 May 2008 (BST)


  • For wastelands, I am happy with any set up, but we would have to check lots of pages to fix bits and make sure everyone follows for future. For town though, I believe we will want to have more than just Plaza 1. It's four sections, with it's own uniqueness in the game. We will probebly want to explore each section, writing up information, quest links, additional points for each area, dungeon links and so much more. To this end, I recommend Plaza sector 1, not abbreviating it, since even I made a mistake once, when dealing with PP, which I thought was Pepper Park, which actually was ProtoPharma. No abbrecviations please. -- Dragonette 22:44, 6 May 2008 (BST)
  • I think with the new Project we can now say that this one has been decided. All Locations should be displayed as <Letter>_<Number> for expample A_06 - This should allow easier integration into the UneX development cycle and save everyone some time. δρDelphi (t)(c) 11:28, 20 May 2008 (BST)

Anything else

Add it to this talk page and don't forget to sign. --Brammers 13:43, 6 May 2008 (BST)

  • Do we want a template box for all the rewards to be in, this would then separate them from the main questing steps? --δρDelphi (t)(c) 14:54, 6 May 2008 (BST)
  • K.I.S.S = Keep it simple stupid. No offence to anyone :) What I suggest first, is to get the basics in. We can worry about the bells and whistles later, but we need to concentrate on what's important, which is the information that players need. I want to know where to go at lvl 5, 25, 35 to solo if I made no friends, I want to know why my gun won't fire, if everyones being ignorant on help, I want to be safe and learn, knowing my way around, so which genreps are best to get, more importantly, I may want to know where to get that new exiciting piece of equipment from. Let's keep it simple and get our knowledge of the game into the wiki, so we can help everyone else, who may come here to learn. Keep presentation neat and tweak as we go ;-) -- Dragonette 22:50, 6 May 2008 (BST)